2026 Voter Guide: Indiana Secretary of State

Benjamin Thorp: I'm joined today by Greg Ballard. He's an independent candidate for secretary of state. Ballard served as a Republican mayor of Indianapolis and broke with his party to run for secretary of state. Mr. Ballard, thank you so much for joining me today.

Greg Ballard: Great to be here. Thank you.

Thorp: So maybe you can talk about, if elected, what are your top policy priorities?

Ballard: Sure, there's one top one. Obviously, it would be the independence of the office. I will not be donating to fundraising for endorsing any other candidates. I will not be accepting donations from people who are running for office. I think once you're in that office, you need to be independent of all the politics.

And I would suggest to you that I'm the only candidate that's going to say that because they're all going to be party-affiliated and they're going to go endorse other candidates.

But imagine if you were running for office and secretary of state, who's overseeing all of the elections in the state of Indiana, is out campaigning for your opponent. But that's what's been happening for quite a while now, and I think that needs to change.

I think the office has to be independent, and once I'm out of there, I hope that becomes the standard for the state of Indiana, so that we don't have that into the future. There's other things we want to do. We want to put out a voter's guide for everybody. There are voter guides out there. Some newspapers put out there. The League of Women Voters have one, but they're available to be had.

We want to push it out to the voters. We think that's extremely important because we have terrible participation rates here in the state of Indiana for voting, and we think a part of that is they don't know who they're voting for.

And if they do ahead of time, and we're going to do it by precinct, then when they get one, they'll be incentivized to vote, and then when, when they get in there, when they get there, hopefully the lines won't be as long because they'll know who they want to vote for once they get in there.

So there are several things like that. We obviously want to bring dignity and stability back to that office because it's problematic right now, and that's hardly a secret. But I'm the one with a lot of experience. I'm the one with a stable background that people know about. People know how I governed as the mayor of Indianapolis, and I want to bring that sort of tenor to that office.

Thorp: Are Indiana elections secure, and what should the state do to assure voters that their votes count?

Ballard: Yes, generally they are very secure. The 92 county clerks do a tremendous job. The system's kind of in place. I mean, people talk about this and that, but generally speaking, the elections are secure here in the state of Indiana. You have to keep on top of it.

There are people try to meddle all the time, but those are usually caught pretty quickly, and people understand that. And I don't think anything in the recent future has said that an outcome has been changed. It's been because of some sort of meddling. So I think the clerks and all the people in the election division, all those people, have been doing a really good job.

Thorp: How are you going to avoid any conflicts of interest as secretary of state? And is transparency of the office important to you?

Ballard: Well, like I said earlier, we're going to be independent. We, we, we're not going to meddle with. We're not going to touch politics at all. So I think that's a very important point.

And like I say, no one, nobody else is going to tell you that transparency is important. Certainly, when I was the mayor, we put contracts online, which was a rather radical move at the time. We created an ethics, we increase the ethics within the office and lobbying, and that sort of thing, but also putting the contracts online is a pretty bold step.

We did that as the mayor. I would expect that we would do that again as the secretary of state, and we'd be very open about everything that we're going to be doing. I did that as the mayor, and I would do that here.

Thorp: Yeah, many voters have told us that they don't think politicians listen to their constituents. Why do you think that is, and what are you going to do, if anything, to address those concerns?

Ballard: Actually, I'm doing it right now. I have listening sessions scheduled throughout the state. I've already done several of them. I'm very good at listening. It was really based on when I was running for mayor in '07, and then as the mayor, I did mayor's night out every month, and I went out to a different neighborhood to take all their questions, and brought my main staff with me to help them answer the questions.

We're very good at listening, and we just we were in Brazil and Terre Haute here recently. We've done them in West Lafayette. We're doing them, kind of all over the place right now, and we're hearing some things that maybe we weren't quite expecting, particularly with the business services division.

So we're very good at that. We will be listening, and I will continue to listen once I'm in office too, because that's how you know what's really happening, right? You don't really get whatever the news media might be talking about at one point in time, maybe is not what the people are feeling out there, and I learned that when I was the mayor also.

So we had just got them all. We have to put all this together and make sure that our ears are to the ground, and they certainly were eight years as the mayor. Certainly would do that as secretary of state.

Thorp: This has felt like a particularly crowded secretary of state's race. What sets you apart from the other candidates? 

Ballard: Oh, that's an easy one. I'm in this race to affect change into the future. Very difficult to get those 37,000 signatures. Very difficult to raise the money to do that. But this is a very closed voting system in the state of Indiana, people don't realize it.*

It really is, and even the Republican nominee, once he became the nominee within the hour, he said, "I want to close the primaries, which to me means, OK, you want the citizens to pay $10 million for your little exclusive club every May.

That's what that sounds like to me. People don't understand how closed this system is, only one in five people, one in five registered voters in the state of Indiana could actually run for office.**

We found a way to get through to get on the ballot again. Very punitive, purposeful obstacle in the way. Other states don't have anywhere near what we had to go through, not even close. But we got through it. And if you want more and better choices into the future, then there's really only one way to go. Because if you vote for the same thing, if you vote for the Republicans and Democrats again, you're just going to get the same thing.

If you want the same level of toxicity, if you want the heated rhetoric that's going on. If you want people screaming at each other, if you want people, the purity test and the extreme ideology? Republicans and Democrats are your people.

I'm trying to change that. Our entire team is trying to make sure that the November election is competitive in every race, because right now it isn't. Ninety-five percent of the legislature was decided two months ago by 10% of the people, in the primaries.***

The November elections in Indiana are not competitive. They were decided in May by the parties with the gerrymandering that's involved. That's exactly what happened. If you want competitive elections in November, if you want three people that can win this race as opposed to one person that can win this race, that's what makes us different because we will do this into the future.

That's the intent. We're doing it right now, but once we're on, once we become the Lincoln Party on Election Day, then the state has an opportunity to have more and better choices on the ballot in November, not in May. In November. So that people have choices that they don't have right now. That's what makes us different, completely different.

*Editor's note: For context, Indiana has partially open primaries, and you can read the current primary rules and more about the debate to close here. 

**Editor's note: Indiana requires a party candidate must have voted in its primary two consecutive times. Independent Indiana data reports only 20% of Hoosiers do that — which can be interpreted to mean only one in five Hoosiers is qualified to run for office in a major party.

***Editor's note: Roughly 10% of Indiana's population voted in the 2026 primary, 11.57%. Of registered voters, 17% voted in the primary.

Thorp: To be clear, I'm understanding kind of what you're saying here. Is your kind of contention that you want to do away with the amount of signatures required to appear on the ballot?

Ballard: Of course, of course. But when we create the Lincoln Party, we have provided an avenue for people. We, even though it'll be called the Lincoln Party, it's actually for independents, and they don't have to go get those signature requirements anymore, because of what the law says. Now, if you want to run outside of that, you have to go get those signatures again.

But I've been suggesting to you that those are punitive obstacles in the way of having more people on the ballot. What we did, we took the hit for everybody, and we got these signatures, and we're going to create this party for independents so that they can get on the ballot into the future because the Republicans and Democrats do not like what I am doing.

They know they now know what's happening because we will provide an opportunity for people to run for office. Only one in five can do it right now. We will provide an opportunity for good people to run for office.

The funny thing about this is both Republicans and Democrats have been coming to us once this election is over. That they're so tired of the parties, they're so tired of the extreme ideology and the purity test of the parties.

They're looking to run through us because they're so tired of this. And people have to understand this is really important. There's opportunity for more people to run for office because of this. You can't, it's so hard to run for office in the state of Indiana. We are going to provide that opportunity.

Thorp: Real quickly, you know, I've heard from other candidates this question of what would you've talked about forming this Lincoln Party. What would it stand for beyond as an independent avenue? What do you see as the pillars of this party.

Ballard: Well, I will preface that by saying, do the Republican and Democratic parties follow their principles and platforms now? Of course not. It's of course not. It's all issues-based. They put this out, and it has nothing to do with anything. What we want is to have good, practical, problem-solving people in office.

We want you to be proud of who you're voting for, and proud that you'd have in office. That's who we want. That's the whole point of all of this, and that's so different than what the Republicans and Democrats are doing. And if you want to affect the change in the state of Indiana, it's this race this year.

Thorp: That's all the time we have for today, Mr. Ballard. Thank you so much for joining us here at WFYI.

Ballard: Thanks, Ben. Appreciate it.

Benjamin Thorp: I'm joined today by Beau Bayh. He's the Democratic candidate for secretary of state. He is also the son of Evan Bayh, former Governor of Indiana. Mr. Bayh, thank you so much for joining us today. 

Beau Bayh: Thanks for having me, Ben. It's good to be here.

Thorp: So maybe start by talking about if elected, what are your top policy priorities?

Bayh: Yeah. So my first act as secretary of state is going to be to open an independent audit of this office. Unfortunately, the current secretary of state has wasted taxpayer money in ways that are unacceptable.

He spent $92,000 of our tax money on a luxury SUV for himself, that's more than the average Hoosier makes in the entire year.*

He's hired members of his family to six-figure salaries, and he's taken trips all over the world. Won't tell us who's paying for them or the purpose of the travel. And, potentially worst of all, he's given out millions of dollars in no-bid taxpayer-funded state contracts to his largest campaign donors. So I don't care what political party you come from, we can't tolerate that type of waste and insider dealing in our state government.

So my first act is going to be to open an independent audit of the office to rein in the corruption, rein in the insider dealing, and make sure that when Hoosiers are working really hard and paying their tax money, it's going toward good things like better schools, better roads and bridges, safer streets.

Because it's important to understand that we're not going to be able to accomplish anything on the policy fronts, which I am happy to get into a little bit later, if the taxpayer, the voter, fundamentally does not trust that the office is being run in an honest way. So an independent audit is important to set a baseline in the office, and then we can move to some of the very important policy objectives that I have.

The secretary of state is the chief election officer of our state. That's an extremely important job. In your hands is potentially our state's most precious resource, which is the health of our democratic process.

And here in Indiana, unfortunately, we rank toward the bottom, if not last in a lot of years, in voter participation. Now, that's not good news, but the good news is that we can be doing some common sense things as a state to increase participation among eligible voters. And I'm happy to get into a few of those, yeah.

*Editor's note: WFYI and other news outlets previously reported the cost at $90,000 and cannot confirm the amount $92,000. 

Thorp: On that point, are Indiana elections secure, and what should the state be doing to assure voters that their votes count?

Bayh: Yes, so Indiana elections are secure. Now that being said, one instance of voter fraud is one too many. We got to be very strong on election integrity. I support our state's voter ID law. I think that makes common sense to have to prove who you are and able in order to cast your ballot. I think that's done generally a good job of protecting our elections.

The attorney general and the secretary of state conducted an investigation into voter fraud in our state, and out of millions of votes cast, millions and millions of votes cast, they uncovered 22 instances of illegal voting.*

One instance is too many, and they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. If I'm successful, they will be, and there will be a zero-tolerance policy for that type of thing. But it's important to keep in perspective that out of millions of votes cast, 22 instances were uncovered. So we have to keep our elections secure.

They are, for the most part, right now, but we also have to be doing everything we can to increase participation among eligible voters because our state is at its best when there are more voices participating. When the marketplace of ideas is strongest, there's more competition, more debate, and that's what I'd like to see in our state.

*Editor's note: Voter fraud is rare. Current Secretary of State Diego Morales found 21 noncitizen voters in recent Indiana elections and 165 noncitizens registered to vote. Those numbers are less than 1% of the ballots cast. The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank and author of Project 2025, has tracked 59 instances of voter fraud in Indiana from 2003-2022.

Thorp: How are you going to avoid any conflicts of interest as secretary of state? And does transparency in the office matter?

Bayh: Yeah, it matters a whole lot. That's one of the biggest problems with our current secretary of state. He has given out millions of dollars in no-bid state contracts, and just so your listeners are aware, no-competition awarding of state contracts to the largest financial supporters in his campaign. That's pretty naked corruption, in my opinion.

So I've taken a pledge in this campaign that no donor to my effort here, no donor to our campaign, will be awarded a single state contract, and so that's the type of transparency that I'm hearing around the state that Hoosiers are craving. My opponent in this race, Max Engling, has not made that same pledge, and I hope that he can do that.

Thorp: Many voters told us that they don't think that today's politicians listen to their constituents. Why do you think that is, and how are you going to address that?

Bayh: Yeah, so we have a problem in our state. That, for the past 20 or so years, there's been little competition in state government. I'm an attorney here in town. I went to join the Marine Corps and then I went to law school and became an attorney.

One of my main focuses in my legal practice is antitrust law, and there's a reason that we ban monopolies here in our country. If you have single group control of a market, companies can charge consumers whatever price they want, there's no incentive on the part of the company to offer a better product or a better service.

The same is true in this respect in government. If there is single group in control of everything, as there has been for quite some time now in our state, there's no incentive on the part of the office holder to be accountable to the voters.

So when people are telling, I hear this all the time, just like you do, when people are saying politicians don't listen to me in our state, there's a reason for that, because they don't feel like there are going to be negative repercussions at the ballot box for some of this nonsense we've seen going on.

There's a reason that Diego Morales feels like he can buy the luxury SUV with our tax dollars, because he feels like there's not going to be any accountability on the part, you know, in November.

But he's about to find out that, that's not the case, when we're going to prosecute the case against him for the next few months here, and the case against Max Engeling, who supported him for the, for the past more than three years.*

So that's why people say their politicians are not being as accountable to them as they should be.

*Editor's note: It appears Bayh means "prosecute" figuratively. Morales and Engling have not been charged with crimes.

Thorp: This is a particularly crowded secretary of state's race. I think, as you're already kind of mentioning, what sets you apart from these other candidates?

Bayh: Yeah. Well, first, I have the relevant job experience to this role as an attorney. I've handled some election law matters myself in the federal courts.

One of the main responsibilities of this office, outside of the elections segment of it, is that you're responsible for investigating alleged securities fraud in our state. Working with a federal judge in Bloomington, we handled some securities fraud matters at the federal level. I want to bring some of that relevant job experience to the state level.

I also help entrepreneurs on a nearly daily basis in my legal practice. One of the very important responsibilities of this office is helping entrepreneurs set up new businesses, which create jobs and fuel our economy. It was the honor of my life serving as a Marine Corps infantry officer, and one of the best parts about our nation's militaries, it looks a lot like our country.

People come from every walk of life, every socio-economic background, every political persuasion. And to be a good leader in politics and business and anything, you have to be able to get a group of diverse people of different mindsets oriented toward accomplishing a common mission.

So beyond the policy of this office, this campaign is about building a type of politics in our state that looks a little bit more like the units that I led in the Marine Corps, where we might disagree on some things, but at the end of the day, we can kind of come together around our shared values to accomplish some tough missions.

That's the type of leadership experience that I'm going to bring to this office because I don't know about you, but I hear this every day on the campaign trail, Hoosiers are sick and tired of the divisiveness, of the anger, of the vitriol that is wound up into our politics.

It's time we had leadership in our state where we don't divide Americans or Hoosiers amongst each other, over, kind of superficial things, but instead we seek to bring people together. That's how we're going to build a better future here.

Thorp: That tees me up kind of perfectly. We've heard from secretary of state candidate Greg Ballard, that people are sick of partisanship, as you've been kind of saying, that you know people don't trust these, one party or the other, because of that partisanship. Maybe make the case right now for kind of your running as a member of the Democratic Party.

Bayh: Yeah, look, I believe in some of the tenets of the Democratic, what the Democratic Party stands for. For example, the Democratic Party was responsible for implementing Social Security, which lets our seniors retire with dignity.

Supporting organized labor unions, which let workers organize to bargain for better benefits, fairer wages, safer working conditions. Clean air and clean water. Those are the types of things that the Democratic Party has traditionally stood for, and I believe in those things.

But I want to be very clear, I am not, I will not run, and I've been clear on this since the first day we launched this campaign, I will not run this office in a partisan way. There is no place in our state for injecting partisan politics into handling something as sacred as our elections, and unfortunately, that's where this current secretary of state has gone wrong in some instances.

So there's no place for partisan politics in this office. I will not run this in a partisan way. And I'm seeking to earn the support of not just Democrats, but of Independents and Republicans too, because I want to be the secretary of state of every Hoosier and not just those in my political party.

Thorp: There have been growing calls to kind of close the primaries on the Republican side. I'm wondering if you have a perspective on that.

Bayh: Yeah, I don't agree with that, and I'll give you a few reasons why. Our primary process currently is being funded by the taxpayer, so people pay their taxes to the state government. The state government then finances our primary process using those tax dollars.

Given that fact, I don't think it's fair, and I don't think it makes a ton of sense to let the private clubs close off their primary process to their private members.*

And just just to be very clear, when Max Engling says he wants to close the primaries, what that means is that he does not want everyone in our state to be able to participate. Literally, you will not be able to vote in a primary unless you register with a political party to do so. And the largest group of voters in our state is not Democrats or Republicans; it's independents by a pretty wide margin.**

And so, what you'd be doing is forcing those people who don't find a home in either of the major political parties to register with a party they don't agree with in order to cast their ballot in a primary. Our primary participation is already so low in our state. Our general election participation is already so low in our state.

Can you imagine what would happen if you create an additional hurdle in order to participate? Our participation will be driven even lower and will have less good outcomes, in my opinion.

*Editor's note: For context, Indiana has partially open primaries, and you can read the current primary rules and more about the debate to close here. 

**Editor's note: Indiana doesn't directly register people by political party. Independent Indiana data suggests only 20% of Hoosiers vote consistently in the primaries for one party, which could be interpreted to mean most voters in the state are independents.

Thorp: You've released your first TV ad. Maybe talk about what is your, you know, media campaign strategy, and who are you trying to attract?

Bayh: Well, we're going to reach out to every voter in our state, regardless of political party. I think you saw, you've seen, from our first TV ad. I don't mention partisan political parties because I don't think that we should be focusing on that in how we choose elected officials.

I think we should decide who's right for this office based on the merit of their ideas. And when we attach partisan labels to things, oftentimes these national issues get wound up in that, and we lose focus on the very real issues with respect to this office.

One of the messages in that ad, which I've kind of explained at the outset here, is cleaning up the corruption in this office. That's why I'm going to conduct an independent audit on day one.

Thorp: Mr. Bayh. That's all the time we have for today. Thank you so much for joining us.

Bayh: Thanks, Ben. Appreciate it.

Benjamin Thorp: I'm joined today by Max Engling. He's the Republican candidate for secretary of state. Engling recently won that nomination at the Republican convention, knocking out the current secretary of state, Diego Morales. Mr. Engling, thank you so much for joining us. 

Max Engling: Absolutely, thank you for having me. I appreciate the opportunity.

Thorp: So I think to start, maybe you can talk about if elected, what are your top policy priorities?

Engling: Absolutely. So we're pressing very hard to make sure that we defend the integrity of our elections and uphold conservative values. And part of the way we're doing that is looking at a few things.

One, ensuring that only citizens are voting in our elections. So right now, you have folks that are potentially voting who are illegal in the United States, and then folks that are here legally but not eligible to vote, and we did see some of that come out in addition last night with what the president announced.*

But we're also pushing to make sure that we have things like a transparency portal, so you bring sunlight to issues that folks at the local level may be bringing up, and then also, we've talked a lot about the business filing fraud that we've seen with companies that are creating shell LLCs and then defrauding Hoosiers or putting dangerous drivers on the road if it comes to some of these fraudulent trucking companies.

*Editor's note: In the primetime speech Engling refers to, President Donald Trump released classified documents to show "shocking vulnerabilities in our election infrastructure," but elections experts said there was nothing new and "nothing here that even calls into question past elections." After that speech, Indiana election officials said they are confident in the security of the state's upcoming midterm election. 

Thorp: One of the things you've also spoken about, especially at the convention, was closed primaries. Can you talk about that briefly?

Engling: Yeah, absolutely. So you're correct, and it was added to our party platform. We're working now, even with the Statehouse, to push that forward. And a big part of that means that both sides, you know, Republicans and Democrats, should be picking their own candidates.

So they should find on either side who their candidate is, put the best person forward, and then, in the general election, then everyone decides who best fits that district.*

*Editor's note: For context, Indiana has partially open primaries, and you can read the current primary rules and more about the debate to close here. 

Thorp: Are Indiana elections secure, and what should the state do to assure voters that their votes count?

Engling: Yeah, so I do believe that Indiana is in a great place when it comes to election security. My job is to build on that to say, how do we continue moving forward, and voters here in Indiana should have confidence that our elections are being run well.

There are still some things we need to do, though, to move forward and be even more proactive in our approach.

I mentioned that only citizens should be voting here, and one way to work to that end is to say, if you have an ID card that you've received from the state, but you are a legal but non-citizen of the United States here in Indiana, the color of that ID card should be changed so that if you do attempt, if they do attempt to vote, it'd be very obvious to the clerk in that polling place that this person is ineligible.

Just to add another proactive guardrail so that it's only citizens voting here in our elections.

Thorp: How will you avoid any conflict of interest as secretary of state? And is the transparency of the office an important issue to you? I

Engling: It is a very important issue. I think it's an important issue any time you're using taxpayer dollars. You're using money that folks have given, so you have to be responsible and efficient with that, and part of that means that it's, you're transparent.

And so I do think that if the voters give me this responsibility, moving here into the general election, they say "Yes, we want Max to be our secretary of state," then the transition period will be very important to make sure that we put in processes and procedures to that end, so that we're running an operation that gives confidence to the voters in the secretary of state's office.

Thorp: Many voters have told us that they don't think today's politicians listen to their constituents. Why do you think that is, and what would you do to address that? 

Engling: It is important. I mean, the voters are the ones that send you there, right? And so you need to hear them directly and say, "What do you want me to be doing in this office? What's the best way to proceed?"

And then you take all that information and say, "Let's move forward in the best direction for the state of Indiana." And so I have been adamant on the campaign trail, whether it's in the convention or whether it's now in the general election, to take in all of those voices from folks across the state of Indiana.

So in the convention, talked with 1,800 people, saying, you know, "What are your priorities, and how do we match those to what we're doing going forward?" And then now, in the general election, we've been traveling the state. We've been going everywhere to listen and say, "What do you want out of this office? How do we provide the best election integrity? How do we provide the best efficiency from this office?"

And going forward, I think it's important that you have that level of ability to listen to the citizens of Indiana to make sure that you're hearing what they want and how you proceed in this office. So it is really, really important. It's key to the office.

Thorp: Mr. Engling. Did you see yourself in this race a year ago?

Engling: So the reason I'm here is because folks across Indiana came to me. They asked me if I would run in this race because they wanted somebody that they could get behind to say, "Let's continue building on the conservative election policy that we have here in the state of Indiana."

And so, it has long been my goal in my life, broadly has been, to work hard and trust God, have a goal that you hold tight enough to keep moving towards that goal, but also loose enough so that it can be used and I can be where God wants me to be.

So, you know, I'm a Christian. I'm a husband, father. And I really want to make sure that my life is an example of that to my kids too. And so I think this is an opportunity for me to serve the state of Indiana well, and to make sure that we continue building on the strength that we have here in the state.

Thorp: Another thing when I was at the convention that I heard people talking about is a desire for paper ballots. Can you talk about that? Do you have a perspective on that?

Engling: Yeah, we did. There were a lot of delegates that were bringing that issue up. I think, what's most important thing is, that we have a paper record of everything of every vote in the state of Indiana, so that if you do need to recount.

You are not relying solely on a digital process. You are able to pull the tape and say what happened in this election and recount it fully. And we do have great voting machines here in the state of Indiana. Where the ones that I use, both as an inspector and as a voter in Hamilton County, it has the paper tape that runs alongside it.

After you've made your selections, you verify it right there. You personally say yes, that's what I did, and then enter your vote after that. So I do think the most important thing is that, on paper, there is a record to ensure that we can go back later if there is any type of issue and verify that vote.

*Editor's note: In 2022, Governor Eric Holcomb signed a law requiring all Indiana voting machines to have a paper audit trail by July 1, 2024. Chad Kinsella, a Ball State University professor and co-director of the state's Voting System Technical Oversight Program, VSTOP, told WFYI for this fact check that all counties do now have "some sort of paper backup to the cast vote of every voter."

Thorp: Yes, to be clear, that is something that you support?

Engling: So the paper record of it, yes, that's right.

Thorp: Is there anything that I'm not asking you that you want to make sure that you say?

Engling: I think it's just important for, you know, voters to know that I'm pressing to protect our elections. I want to make sure that when voters go to the polling place, they understand and have confidence in that election.

I think it's also important to note that of the candidates, I'm the one who has direct, relevant experience for this role. So I've worked in multiple small businesses here in Indiana. I've filed my own small business here.

I worked for the Chief Elections Committee in the U.S. House. I've worked for top leadership on building a coalition to get good legislation across the finish line, and so much of that is important to this particular office.

And then I've traveled the state for the last three-plus years, talking with Hoosiers to hear, "What do they want, what they're doing really well, and how we can make changes at the policy level to do things even better." And then, "How do we get government out of your life as well?"

So, taking all that together, I think that the choice is clear to put someone forward that shares the conservative values of the folks here in Indiana but also understands how to do this specific job and has the background to make that happen.

Thorp: You're already kind of answering it, but you know this feels like a particularly crowded secretary of state race. What sets you apart from the other candidates? 

Engling: I think one is that I have the experience to do this job. I think, you know, the other thing is that I understand what it means to be a Hoosier.

So you know, I'm feeding a family of six here, in the state of Indiana, and I understand what it means to do that, and then also to represent Hoosiers and what they want, and listen to them, and take that to the next level in the secretary of state's office, if they give me this responsibility in November.

Thorp: Real quickly, you know, for things like closed primaries, can you just walk me through how the secretary of state can influence that particular kind of policy proposal.

Engling: Yeah, you make a great point. So, the authority that's given to the secretary of state is delegated to it by the Statehouse. And so as secretary of state, you don't get to change the law unilaterally.

You have to work with your partners at the Statehouse, and in statewide government, to say how are we going to get this across the finish line. And that's where it's really relevant to have a background like mine that includes building legislative coalitions to get priorities like this across the finish line.

And so, yes, you need to have someone in the secretary of state's office that can champion that issue, but also understands how to build the coalition, how to make sure that you are working with all of the partners, including clerks at the county level, to say, "Let's put forward good legislation that can actually be implemented and that will get through the state house."

And I'm prepared to do that moving forward right away.

Thorp: That's all the time we have for today, Mr. Engling. Thank you so much for joining us here at WFYI.

Engling: Wonderful. Thank you, Ben. It's great to be here.

Benjamin Thorp: I'm joined today by Lauri Shillings. She's the Libertarian candidate for secretary of state. Shillings is the creative director at the University of Indianapolis and serves as the chair of the Hamilton County Libertarian Party. Candidate Shillings, thank you so much for joining me today.

Lauri Shillings: Thanks for having me, Ben. I appreciate the opportunity.

Thorp: So I think the first question is: If elected, what are your top policy priorities?

Shillings: So one of the first things that I would like to accomplish in this role is, since it's a service role, it's the first, portal of business. When they come into the state of Indiana, I really want to address some of the issues with the website.

That's my top priority at this point. From the state down to local areas, I want to make it a unified effort, so that when local county clerks go to file paperwork, upload any of the candidates' information, when they're filing anything to do with record-keeping, it's exactly the same interface that the state has. And the state should also have the same as what federal might have.

I've been campaigning for a year and a half, and everyone I've talked to talks about the struggles they have with that website. And one of the things that I really want to emphasize is that my background is in marketing and web design, and for the last 20 years that's pretty much what I've been focused on.

So I really want to bring that level of expertise to this role. And I know that clerks want to have their job easier, and that people who interface with that information also want to have that to be functional and frustration-free.

Thorp: Are Indiana elections secure, and what should the state do to assure voters that their votes count?

Shillings: I think our elections are incredibly secure. There's been a minimal amount of voter fraud that's been detected. Our current secretary of state has found one instance in the last four years where someone has voted illegally.*

And, you know, I just had a wonderful conversation with the League of Women Voters just yesterday about our election integrity and the things that we are doing, and how they can be improved. They'd like to see a paper ballot marked with just a tabulation machine at that point. That would make it so there's a paper trail for every vote.**

I'm, I think it's a good idea. I don't know that it's feasible right now because of the equipment that we currently have that's being used. The other thing I'd really like to address is that we have audits of certain counties throughout the state once elections happen, when they certify.***

So X Y Z county they go through, pull a sample ballot, and make sure that those amounts were accurate. It, we're not really good as a state to say this is exactly what happened, and we found zero problems. Or if they did find a problem, what they did to address that.

So if that were more transparent, I think people in the state of Indiana would be more readily agreeable that our elections are also secure.

*Editor's note: Current Indiana Secretary of State Diego Morales found 21 noncitizen voters in recent Indiana elections and 165 noncitizens registered to vote. 

**Editor's note: This is an idea for all counties to use a tabulation machine - not a touch screen/digital machine with print out. Indiana does have a paper trail of all votes in all counties.

***Editor's note: The paper trail in the last note is the record used during the audits to verify results. Indiana law allows for voluntary post-election audits. The law came into effect in 2020 with five counties. Not all counties have set up audit procedures. The state's program has conducted 45 post-election audits in 41 counties.

Thorp: This segues really nicely. How are you going to avoid any conflicts of interest as secretary of state? And is transparency in the office an important issue to you?

Shillings: Transparency is incredibly important to me. And you know, as a libertarian, my only job is to do a good job. I don't carry water for any political party that has meaningful input. Libertarians have taken the stance that it's not left or right, it's for the people. And that is 100% what I'm here to do, do this job for the people of Indiana.

Thorp: Many voters told us that they don't think today's politicians listen to their constituents. Why do you think that is, and what would you do to address that?

Shillings: Well, again, I've been out tabling for a year and a half and talking to the people of Indiana, the constituents here, and really taking in what they want to see accomplished in this.

A lot of business owners feel that they want to have a more secure website that's easy to interface with. They want to feel that their needs are met there as far as filing issues.

And I really think that it is important to say, "Hey, people of Indiana, I've heard you. I've listened to you. This is my top policy point because that's what you continuously tell me you want to see addressed, and that's what I'm doing."

Thorp: This is a particularly crowded secretary of state race. What sets you apart from the other candidates?

Shillings: Well, I was born and raised in Indiana, and I've been here for 50-plus years. I've been doing the work of service and working in leadership roles in nonprofits and business for more than 20 years of that, I'm really focused on service.

So I grew up in a family, in a very small town in the western half of Indiana called Wingate, and less than 600 people there currently. It's real rural, rural farmland. And my family's been in the area since like 1824. And over time, every generation is always given to their community. I saw my father and my mother both give to their communities in a way that was meaningful.

So when I was very young, we suffered a tragedy. We lost. I lost a sibling, and because of that, they both went into first responder work to make sure that no other family would have that happen to them. My dad went on to serve for more than 50 years in his community, and just retired recently as a fire chief.

And so I see that kind of heart of service, and how it's applied, and how you care for your community because that's just what you're supposed to do. And I really don't see that from our leadership in Indiana right now, and I want to bring that heart of service to the state.

Thorp: Greg Ballard, who is running as an independent, has said that this is a moment for third, a third party here in Indiana, and I'm wondering if you agree with those comments.

Shillings: I think we've always had a moment for a third party. What I do think is interesting, that we've have a, what he calls himself, an independent, but what he really is, is an undefined other party, the Lincoln Party, nobody knows what he really stands for.

So, the thing is, is that without him being in the race, we would probably not have the megaphone for third parties that we do right now. And I appreciate that. As I told you on the way up here, it's nice to have competition because that brings the best people to the forefront.

Thorp: Maybe with this megaphone, what do you think people should understand about Indiana's Libertarian Party? 

Shillings: We think that you are best able to govern yourself. We want limited government, but functional and efficient government.

We think that your taxpayer dollars should remain in your pocket and not on frivolous spending, and that is the main point of the Libertarian Party, is to defend your personal rights and to allow government to do its functional job without any extra spending.

Thorp: There have been growing calls from the Republicans for closed primaries. I'm wondering what your perspective on that is, and then I'm also curious how that would impact the Libertarian Party.

Shillings: It wouldn't impact the Libertarians at all because we currently have a closed primary.*

Every primary is a private party business that the two main parties in Indiana charge the taxpayer for. That's where they elevate their candidates to their primary ballot, the same thing as the Libertarians do, and that is, we spend our own money. We don't ask taxpayers to do that, and that's who appears on your November ballot. Closed primaries have pros and cons.**

It would probably limit the voices of Indiana voters in some way because, you know, in the secretary of state's role, it's my job to represent every voter in Indiana, not just a political party. But what it would do is force voters to pay more attention to who their delegates are at those conventions.

So you would have to select someone who would be representative of your voice, who they would select for these main kind of offices that are running, and you would have to be very selective about that and ensure that they are going to do the will of the voter.

The other thing it would do is force people to register for one party or another, so that those parties would then know who is actually supporting them overall in the state. That's kind of the pros and cons in all of those statements.

One of the biggest cons that I think people will have is they feel like their voices will not be represented because then they would not be able to say, "Hey, out of this field of 20, you've selected two that obviously are very much aligned with your high-level party political cultures, rather than the people of Indiana."

*Editor's note: For context on minor party candidate selection, you can read more about Libertarian Party of Indiana nominating conventions here. 

**Editor's note: Indiana has partially open primaries, and you can read its current primary rules and more about what closed party elections would look like for major parties here. 

Thorp: Yeah, you know, this is kind of the heart of this District 23 case right now. This question of voters crossing over and voting for Republicans who would normally be Democratic voters. I mean, do you have a perspective on whether or not that's something that should outright be, you know, taken off the table?

Shillings: I think that in that particular instance, they're trying to get people to break their First Amendment rights and say you're not allowed to talk about who you voted for.

Once you reach the ballot box in November, nobody knows who you're voting for? It's your right to have a private and secure vote, and those individuals should be able to do that. Now, the law is very vague.*

It indicates that you're pledging to vote for that party in the future, but let's say the individual you selected in the primary has then become, you know, probably not a great human being for some reason or another, and you don't really want to continue to carry your vote forward for them, so you should have the opportunity to change your vote.

*Editor's note: For more context, Indiana has what could be called honor code rules about who can vote in a primary election, and you can read them here.

Thorp: Is there anything I haven't asked you that you want to make sure people understand?

Shillings: Well, I want people to know that I'm here to serve the people of Indiana. The Libertarian Party has policy planks that are out there available for people to understand what that's for.

We've been on your ballot for 32 years because of this particular race, which is the ballot access race for all parties, and it's a great reason to vote third party is to ensure that we continue that ballot access not only for state level but clear down to local-level races, where I know we have elected libertarians in your area.

Thorp: Thank you so much. That's all the time that we have today. Thanks for joining us at WFYI.

Shillings: Thanks for having me.