Indiana State Representative Andrew Ireland on why he supports redistricting

NPR's Steve Inskeep talks with Indiana State Representative Andrew Ireland about a Tuesday meeting at the White House of Republican lawmakers from Indiana, and why he supports a mid-decade redraw of congressional maps.

This interview has been edited for style and clarity.

Steve Inskeep: Dozens of Republican lawmakers from Indiana visited the White House yesterday, and their meeting touched on redistricting. One of them was Republican State Representative Andrew Ireland, who represents some of the outlying areas of Indianapolis, the capital.

Now, I just want to do a little bit of math here. During Trump's time, last decade or so, Indiana has been roughly a 60/40 state, about 60% Republican in Congress. You've got seven of nine Republican seats already, which is way more than 60% Republican. And the idea is to make it even more Republican, maybe unanimously Republican. Do you really want to make it nine out of nine?

Andrew Ireland: Well, listen, I think that there's a strategic disadvantage at the national level for Republicans in Congress because of partisan gerrymandering in other states, like our neighbor, Illinois. And right now we have a leader in our party that recognizes that issue, and we can sit on our laurels and say that, 'We have this map that the Princeton Election Lab, for example, rates as one of the least gerrymandered in the country. Or, you know, we can get in the fight and we can level the playing field.' And I think that's the conversation we're having now.

Inskeep: Okay, you're making an argument, as Democrats are, that the other guys are doing it more. But I want to focus just for a moment on the state of Indiana. You were quoted as saying, Democrats, "Have no business representing us in Washington." Is that a thing you said?

Ireland: That's right. And I'll say that because, you look at Indiana and the political makeup, yes, for 60/40, but also, Democrats have not won over the average Hoosier in a statewide vote for more than a decade in a single office. I think that says a lot about where the party is that it no longer connects with the average Hoosier voter.

There's something to be said that we should have congressional maps that reflect the average Hoosier voter — that don't swing hard to one party or another but actually just swing to the basic average within the state. And then if Democrats can't win that, I mean, that's on Democrats and the fact that they're not focusing on policies and issues that matter.

Inskeep: I was looking at those recent elections, you're right. Republicans have won big in this era in Indiana. Previous decades they did better, Democrats did better, but Republicans are dominant now. And yet it would seem that more than a million Hoosiers disagree with you, because that's the number that voted for Democrats for president or for governor in 2024, well over a million. That would include a majority of people in Indianapolis, the city you represent. Are you dismissing the wishes of your own constituents?

Ireland: No, I'm not. And I'll say, take Massachusetts, for example. It is also has nine congressional seats. The political makeup is almost exactly the same, 60/40, but Democrats are Republicans. But in Massachusetts, the same for all of New England, is entirely a Democrat congressional delegation. In Indiana, again, if we're going to level the playing field, then we're going to play by a system that really evens out the kind of the partisan split in Congress. I don't think there's anything wrong for Indiana to take a similar approach.

Inskeep: I think you can make the case about Massachusetts, and I think about that sometimes — if you're a Massachusetts Republican, it's got to be very, very frustrating. But it sounds like you want the same thing for Indiana.

Ireland: Candidly, I would like to see a world where Congress steps in and does its job to rein in partisan gerrymandering. But until Congress does its job, I think states have an obligation to really protect the interests of the majority on the national scale. And right now states like Indiana have kind of sat by and said, 'Even though Illinois is doing this, even though California, Maryland, other states do that, we're going to sit back and try to do it the right way.'

And I respect that. I think there's something to be said for that. But at the same time, you can't put your partisan bin at a strategic disadvantage on a national level and marginalize your own voters in the process.

Inskeep: You know, I do have to mention there are a number of Democratic-led states where they've put these nonpartisan processes in place. In fact, California is one. That's what they're now backing out of in response to the redistricting in Texas. It's not like Democrats have made no effort in this, but I'm just thinking this through. If Democrats should win one election in Indiana, which I grant, is unlikely now, should they have the right to just shut you out of power forever?

Ireland: Well, let me push back first on saying that. We have these nonpartisan commissions, and yes, they're nonpartisan in name, but I think if you look at the political affiliation of the individuals that staff them, rarely are they truly nonpartisan. But yeah, of course. If Democrats win elections in Indiana, then you know, they are given the constitutional right to draw maps.

And again, I would encourage them to really focus on issues that matter to Hoosiers. And maybe they would have a little more luck at the ballot box. But they really haven't. They're out of touch with the average voter, and that's why they're in the predicament they're in now.

This interview originally aired on NPR's Morning Edition.